Hohner MS Replacement Reed Plates
Playing harmonica with thick specs
Otis, the Harp Surgery postman, stopped in this morning for a nice cup of tea and a sit down. He delivered a lovely letter from Mr Clive Langhorn who was the Harp Surgery’s very first student many years ago. Clive is now a great blues harp specialist who performs around the South of England. He writes..
I have recently fitted the thicker reed plates (normal .9mm / thicker 1.09mm) to a MS Blues Harp, and it sounds good. Can you tell me why anyone wouldn’t use them, and if different keys may be affected differently using the thicker plates. Best regards,
Clive
It’s wonderful to hear from you Clive. I trust you are still entertaining the masses with your masterful command of the blues. Your question is most welcome and I hope you won’t mind me publishing my analysis, both for your benefit and for the benefit of our reader.
Consistent tone
You may have seen my review of Hohner’s Blues Bender harmonica, where the topic of reed plate thickness was hauled under
the microscope. Blues Bender plates are 1.20mm thick which, from subsequent conversations with Hohner, will offer a player some clear advantages. My only real beef was the packaging statement which says the thicker reed plate gives consistent tone. What, I wonder, would inconsistent tone be? So, your question about Hohner’s MS replacement reed plates provides a welcome extension to this theme. For more information on Hohner’s MS plates, I contacted Hohner UK and I also emailed Steve Baker in Germany.
Gospel according to St. Hohner
Steve Proctor at Hohner UK confirmed that MS harps have separate distribution channels for the US and Worldwide markets respectively. Standard MS factory plates in the USA are 1.05mm, while Worldwide they are 0.9mm. Replacement MS plates in the USA are also 1.05mm, while Worldwide there is a choice either 0.9mm or 1.05mm plates. In addition, MS plates are interchangeable with Cross Harp (brass) and Meisterklasse (chrome) plates which are also 1.05mm thick. Chatting with Steve Baker I posed the following questions which I think go a long way towards answering your letter:
Why would Hohner HQ offer one reed plate specification to the Worldwide Market and another to the US market?
They don’t, that’s a marketing decision made by Hohner USA. Hohner in Germany doesn’t have anything to do with it. The MS series is manufactured using 0.9mm plates on Big River, Blues Harp & Pro Harp, and 1.05mm plates on Cross Harp & Meisterklasse. All these models are sold like that in the USA too. Hohner USA decided to only stock the thicker replacement plates for logistical reasons, as they work fine on all models.
What are the benefits of a thicker plate in terms of tone and volume (accepting that these are two different things)? Are the benefits theoretical or is there and scientific evidence?
In my experience, thicker reed plates definitely make the harp louder and brighter (stronger overtone partials), which may be desirable or not depending on your preferences. Various manufacturers use this as a method of making their instruments louder out of the box. Personally I don’t find it to be an advantage and prefer 0.9mm reed plates.
Hohner UK point out that thicker reed plates give reeds ‘a deeper swing, thereby providing more power. The reeds travel further as more air is pushed across them’. How does this improve performance, tone and volume? Are there any consequent disadvantages?
This appears to be true, see above. However, I don’t necessarily regard it as an improvement. Due to the greater amplitude, thicker reed plates can lead to greater reed stress and earlier breakage, so any advantages in terms of volume and “power” will be a trade off.
Are there any variables inherent in the different keys? Is there an optimum key in relation to reed plate thickness and overall performance?
It would seem to me that thicker plates make more sense in lower keys. Unfortunately it’s very difficult to make reed plates of varying thickness from the low end to the high end and Hohner’s 2 different guages are simply an attempt to find a workable way of offering viable alternatives. Both thicknesses work fine in all keys though.
I imagine any performance improvements relative to plate width, regardless of harp key, are minuscule as we are dealing with a 0.1mm degree of difference.
The differences are quite noticeable to me and I assume also to many other players.
Why would Hohner not advertise replacement plates as openly as, say, Lee Oskar? Is it simply because they wish to promote sales of their fully assembled units?
The service department at Hohner in Germany sells spare reed plates and all other parts directly to the consumer (also internationally). Lee only has one instrument so his situation is logistically much simpler. Few retailers know much about the harmonica and it’s understandably difficult to persuade them to stock spare parts which they may never sell. Many long-term players buy them online for that reason. As with cars, spare parts are proportionally more expensive and therefore more profitable, so Hohner in Germany has nothing whatsoever against selling as many as possible. I can’t answer for the policies adopted by subsidiaries in other countries.
From harp guru Pat Missin
Not a lot I can add to that. I personally don’t find that the thicker plates make a big difference either way. Double the thickness and you really start to notice a difference. I’m not sure it actually makes anything louder, but it does make it sound louder, if you see what I mean. They do tend to make more difference in the lower keys and at the lower end of the harp, also they tend change how you need the reeds to be gapped. Oddly, the thicker the reedplate, the lower the reeds need to be set, although again, the difference between a .9mm and 1.05mm reedplate is not all that much. Despite the commonly accepted wisdom, I’ve never noticed that my customers wear out the thicker reedplates any faster than the standard ones, but I’ve never done a controlled study on it. My own harps with double think plates last fine, but then so do all my harps. It could possibly be that if
you wear out harps quickly, you might wear out harps with slightly thicker reedplates slightly thicker.
Aside from that, the only thing I really mention is that the MS Blues Harps don’t really have a lot to do with the old Blues harps, in much the same way that the MS Marine Band (may it rest in peace) didn’t have much in common with the classic version.
Hohner reed plates decoded
On the Harp-L forum, Joe Broecker explains the current code stamp on the Hohner MS series diatonic harmonica reed plates.
This was printed on a blow reed plate: 1-216-1011018/1 G Dur Hohner 27/03 L9/KA2.
Translated:
1-216-1011018/1 is the article number. I imagine that’s an inventory number
G Dur is German for G Major
27/03 is the 27th calendar week of 2003, probably dating the week of the reed plate’s production
09/KA2 is the reed plate thickness (0.9mm) and the reed alloy
The code may also be printed on other Hohners, I don’t know. It could be an important indicator of the harp’s vintage.
Further background on the Hohner Blues Harp
As you mentioned the Hohner Blues Harp, I thought you might find the following interesting. It’s about the reeds themselves rather than the reed plates, but it’s useful. Apparently there has been a common myth surrounding the Hohner Blues Harp that its reeds are thinner than those on other Hohner models and that they are ‘pre-stressed’. This common assumption has led to the belief that they therefore provide a weaker tone and have a shorter reed life span. Pat Missin dispels this myth on his excellent website here.
Acknowledgements
My thanks to Clive Langhorn for posing the question, and Steve Proctor, Steve Baker and Pat Missin for helping to provide the answers. I hope you find this helpful.
Hello, do you know where I can get a replacement wooden comb for a Hohner blues harp? My G is getting somewhat loose on a few wooden comb arms. Thank you very much. DW
Hi Don,
Not had this question before, but let’s see if we can find you the answer. I think it may depend on where you are based. If in the UK, then talk to Peter at Harmonicas Direct. You’ll find the link over on the right hand side of the page >
If you’re in the US, then perhaps contact Hohner USA. Otherwise I am pretty certain there are specialists out there who make their own combs for purchase. I could always ask my dear friends Joe Felisko and Pat Missin too – they’re sure to know.
Let me know where you are located and let’s work form there. Hear from you again shortly. WW
Don the comb, covers and reed plates are all standard replacement parts for Hohner. Harmonicas Direct should be able to get them, Peter has always been very helpful and saves searching abroad for stuff.
Hi..my name is Haz7maX..I’ve been playing harmonica since 1982..I customize all my harmonica but I noticed a few things about comb size make a difference..why don’t they just ever sell one harmonica that is basicly a diatonic just a 4/3 bigger?? Do you know what I mean??
You must be a friend of C3PO if that’s really your name. Our first harmonica playing Droid. It had to happen eventually. I have to be honest Haz7maX and say, no I don’t know what you mean. In a very friendly way of course! Could you explain what it is you need, and why you need it, a bit more?
I have a number of new Hohner MS blues harps all of which are fine except for the Key of A on which the third hole blow and to a lesser extent the 3 hole draw are both very “leaky”.
I have taken it apart and closed the gaps then widened the gaps tried both and still it remains the one hole I just cannot sort out. Only had it for about 3 months
Any advice ?
Hi Steve,
You say the others are all fine and they are the same brand of Hohner MS Blues Harp. You’ve also tried adjusting the 3 hole reeds and still no improvement. On this bassis, I suspect it may be a manufacturing problem. Also no mention of the 2 draw which is usually an area of frustration. You know what you’re doing. Either contact Hohner and ask about their returns policy, or keep what you’ve got and try swapping the reed plates, if you have another MS harp in A, to see if there’s any improvement.
Thanks – I was beginning to think it was my playing but a friend has lent me a replacement Hohner MS Blues Harp in A and it works fine.
Incidentally I think the Harpsurgery site is first class, as a beginner I’m working my way through the Harp skills section – very useful. I may then try the Skype lessons.
Having reached the section on bending with an explanation as to how it works and the involvement of the blow reed I realise that the loss of the 3 hole blow reed also explains why I was having trouble getting the 3 hole draws – all very enlightening
So I will take your advice and contact Hohner.
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If one reed brakes , is there a place you can buy the single reed or I have to replace the wole plate.
It is possible to buy single reeds, but you’ll need the tools to remove the old reed and screw in the new one. Hohner do reed repair kits and I believe Seydel offer something similar. No doubt you’ll also find YouTube videos on how to engineer reed replacements.
Great Website. I have been trying to source a maker who can supply solid ans I mean solid brass combs for a Hohner MS Meisterclasse harp. Some years ago I heard an American guy play one an the tone was awesome. I think it has to do with the weight. Has anyone heard or an online supplier who can send to Europe if possible? By the way i have tried 1.05mm plates and yes in my opinion they di sound brighter although they are slightly hard to play as they require more blow/ draw energy.
Hi John you could try Blue Moon Harmonicas.They sell all kind of combs and there’s a video of Ronnie Shellist trying out a brass comb for a Special 20 https://bluemoonharmonicas.com/pages/videos
I have been playing harp for 50 years, I play fairly hard in a blues rock band. The problem with that is the 5th draw note gets a hammering and fails, which is the most common problem with all harp players that I know. I use Hohner Special 20s and cannot buy single reed plates, Hohner only sell them in pairs. Over here in Australia a pair of plates are $45, I can get a Special 20 for $50 delivered. I have heaps of harps lying around with a good blow plate and a useless draw plate. Perhaps the is the plan either pay for a pair of plates and have stacks of blow plates lying around or buy a new harp and have heaps of old harps lying around. I guess if they sold single plates they would lose a lot of sales because people would be able to keep their harps going a lot longer. In my 50 years of playing I have never done a blow reed. If there is a company out there that sells reasonable quality harps and will sell single reed plates I will buy their harps. Charge a bit more for a single should work for all.
Hi Gary. I believe you’re right, in that you can only buy sets of replacement reed plates (pairs). This is a handy place to visit for Hohner spares http://www.hohner-cshop.de/ Alternatively you could buy single reeds and teach yourself to replace and tune them. Contact John Cook at http://www.johncookharmonicas.com if you need advice. John will be with us at our forthcoming free online harmonica festival 5-7.Feb 2021, where he will be available in the repair shop break out room. Festival details are at http://www.harpinbythesea.com
Thanks, Wilf, I have bought a couple of Solid Brass Harp Combs from Bluemoon some time ago. They do sound and feel great in the hand. That extra weight really makes for a solid, beefy sound. They are CNC milled to a great accuracy too.
Hi. Are the Reed plates for Blues Harp, Pro Harp and Big River Harp all the same, or are they specific to each harp?
Hi Alex. Thanks for calling into the Surgery. The three harps you mention, Blues Harp, Pro Harp and Big River, are Hohner’s MS series (Modular System). The parts of each harmonica are fully interchangeable and their reed plates are the same (TM132 Brass 0.9mm). You do also have the option of stepping up to a thicker reed plate such as the TM165 brass 1.05mm. I hope this helps.
Thank you very much for your reply, Wilf. But this begs the question, is there a sound difference between the two plastic comb harps, the Pro and the Big River?
In my experience yes there is. I found the Big River had a big sound and responded to a heavy workload. Meanwhile the Pro had a more relaxed air about it and responded well with a gentler approach. But this is me. Hohner’s advertising would suggest this is the other way round. Big Rivers are for a mellow Mississippi sound, while the Pro Harp lends itself to rock music. At the end of the day, I’m sure every player will have a different view. In my ‘cup half full’ opinion, I doubt Hohner would produce two different models without reason, even if the reed plates are interchangeable. I’ll see if I can find out anything further for you.
Hello again Alex, this fresh in from Steve Baker at Hohner, Germany:
Pro Harp MS and Big River Harp MS are identical except for the cover form. Both are fitted with 0.9mm reed plates and the combs are the same. The closed and slightly higher covers of the Pro Harp make it sound a little darker. They are identical in form to the covers used in the Blues Harp MS, but the different comb materials may make a slight difference to the sound between these 2 models. The BRH was always my favorite MS model. The side vents make the tone a little brighter, the form is more comfortable to hold and the plastic comb lacks the sharp edges of the Doussié comb used in the Blues Harp MS. IMO it offers the best value for money of the MS series.
The Cross Harp MS has now been discontinued, it had 1.05mm reed plates but was otherwise identical to the Pro Harp MS. These plates are the ones marketed as spares by Hohner USA, and all parts for this model are still available from the Hohner Service Dept. in Trossingen. I find the thicker reed plates make the harp a little louder and brighten up the tone, but may reduce reed life due to the greater amplitude. The Meisterklasse MS has an aluminium comb and chrome plated 1.05mm reed plates, which make the tone brighter and also slightly louder. All MS models are slightly larger than the Marine Band, about the same size as a Lee Oskar or Seydel. Whether or not you are comfortable with that is a matter of personal preference and may depend on the size of your hands, among other things.
There is an important difference between the reeds used in the MS series and those used in all Marine Band models as well as in the Progressive series (Special 20, all Rocket models, Golden Melody). The MS reeds are slightly longer and therefore have to be slightly stiffer than those of the °Classic Mensur“ in order to create the same pitch. IMO this means that they don’t respond as well and are harder to overblow. Personally I only play models with the Classic reed mensur for this reason.
Claims that the Blues Harp (the old one) had thinner reeds are nonsense, the instrument was identical to a Marine Band except for the cover form, which changed the sound and were more prone to crushing out of shape. I always used to remove them and replace them with Marine Band covers.
Hope that helps, Steve Baker.
Wilf, really great information. This answers a bunch of questions I had and some I didn’t know yet I had. It also clarifies that the old Blues Harps were basically MBs and the new ones are Pro Harps with a wooden comb. Thank you. But I had to try both a Big River Harp (BRH) and a Pro Harp (PH). I started with the nailed Blues Harps and switched to Marine Bands back in the 80s. Never tried anything else. Lately, as the future is getting murky, I decided to hoard a bunch of harps to make sure I have enough to last me till the end of the world (just in case). Can’t go scavenging around the apocalypse with a heart full of blues and no harmonica, right?
But, I got curious about different makes and models and keys I never had. So I’m discovering new harps. Those two I got yesterday. For now, I have some first impressions: the BRH is, as you say, bright and clear and fits the hand. I like it more than I expected. The PH is, indeed, more lumbering and subdued, but I wanna play it all the time. They are in different keys so I’ll switch covers and see what happens. I also got a Suzuki Bluesmaster – quite precise but not gritty enough; Lee Oskar – really clear, loud and easy to play… all are very comfortable. I’m not used to a harp that doesn’t scrape up my mouth! More on the way. It’s so much fun. I may still like the good old Marine Band the best. Thank you again for such a comprehensive reply. Regards.
Hi again. Would Reed gap setting tighten up the air flow a bit to improve the response of MS series harps? Or, is there another trick? Thanks
I think this can work with any harp to be honest. One top tip from John Cook I always bear in mind is that a leaky feel in holes 1, 2 and 3 can sometimes be improved by checking the gapping on the corresponding blow reeds and lowering them if they’re sitting slightly proud.